Welcome to the Purpose Driven Investor, where we build more than portfolios, we build communities. I'm your host, Robert Howell, a real estate investor and founder of Define Communities. Each week, we'll explore how purpose and profit connect through affordable housing, land home packages, and impact-driven investing. If you're a lender, land seller, or a partner who believes money should move with meaning, you're in the right place. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Purpose Driven Investor Podcast. I'm your host, Robert. And today's episode is about legacy, faith and building a life that reflects what you truly value. Our guest today is Mike, and he's the founder of Legacy Homes of the Upstate. Mike is a Christian businessman who loves the Lord, loves people and loves real estate. And his journey is one that spans multiple seasons of life and leadership. Mike's career has taken him from UPS management to leading a small church and starting and selling a construction company. And now into a new chapter where he's semi-retired, but investing in real estate full-time by choice, not by necessity. What makes Mike's story powerful is not just the business that he's built, but the consistency of his values through every stage of his life. So today we're going to talk about faith-driven investing, life transitions, leadership, and how real estate can be a tool for stewardship and legacy, not just income. So let's go ahead All right. Awesome. Well, Mike, let's start out. I want to want to touch on your early career and your leadership foundation. So can you talk about your time at UPS and Sure. I probably implement the majority of what I learned at UPS every day of my life. I think it's one of the greatest companies in the world to this day. I resigned from there to go into ministry. But before that, I was 18 years old and got an interview from a friend. He got me in because in those days, you couldn't just get a job at UPS. And I got in there, and they said, well, where are you going to school? I said, well, I'm not going to school. They said, we can only hire college students. So I went that day and applied for some classes and called them back and said, hey, I'm in college. Can you give me another interview tomorrow? He said, come back in tomorrow. And I got the job. And that started a 16-year career at UPS. I started loading in the docks. I became a supervisor on the docks. part-time and then drove the package car for a short time and That's awesome. We're talking now during the Christmas season. I imagine this season brings back lots of memories of long hours at It really does. The family used to just hold the Christmas dinner for daddy because I could never be home in time for dinner. So it's really a marvel to me to just actually have time to get Christmas presents and go shopping and do all the things That's awesome. Yeah. I talked to you yesterday or day before in Yeah. That didn't happen in That's great. All right. So tell me Yeah, so UPS, they're very methodical in all their teaching methods, all the things that they teach you. And the management skills that I learned in management were just amazing. I had one manager by the name of Don Westland, just a great guy. And he would bring me in the office as a part-timer and just show me all the numbers and say, Donaldson, this is what you need to know. This is what this guy did, this is what this guy did. And so I learned the numbers, and I love numbers. And I learned the processes and all that. And the things that they taught me, like lifting packages, how to lift a package and not hurt your back, how to manage people, and learned all of that from UPS. And I, like That's great. Love that. All right, let's move on to ministry, faith, and people. Talk about how ministry helped to shape how you lead and Yeah, so I left my career at UPS, was on the ladder, scaling up the corporate ladder. Shortly into my time in management, a neighbor invited me to church. And really, I went to a Christian church, I would say, you know, Bible-preaching church, first time in my life. And I heard the preacher up there talking about Jesus and talking about you as a sinner, and I had really never contemplated these things. I lived a pretty reckless and off-the-rails life before that. And when I heard that truth of the Bible, it did something in me, and it actually changed me. And I trusted Christ as my Savior. That was in 1993. Shortly after that, about five years after that, I was called to the ministry and left my career at UPS and went as a full-time student It was something. So that really, that led into my ministry time. Graduated from there, was a part-time youth pastor at a small church up in North Carolina, and that didn't work out real well. Went to California as a senior pastor, and that didn't work out real well for our family. But throughout all that, and even in my time of learning the ministry, I've always loved people, and I've always thought of people as, you know, what can I do for them, or how can I serve them? And even though I'm selfish as a sinner, like we all are, but at times, you know, I'm selfish, but really trying to serve others Got it. That's great. That's great. I can attest to Mike being a servant and helping serve others. I'll make posts on Facebook. Hey, I need somebody to help pressure wash some decks at a property that I'm flipping. And Mike will be the first to respond, say, hey, I'll come over there and do it for you. And so I'm greatly appreciative of all the help that Mike has helped me with, for sure. All right, so talk about in ministry, what'd you learn about people that business alone Yeah, so business—and I heard Ray last week, and just listened to that, and really, he's right. I've always separated business from ministry, but at the same time, we need to minister to everybody all around us. So I tell my guys—I used to tell my guys in the construction company, I love nonprofit organizations, but this isn't one of them. You know, we need to make money at this one, so we can help and fund the nonprofits. And that's really what it is. But the reality is, we need to treat people right. I mean, the golden rule, Christ loved everybody. Christ loved me as a sinner, and Christ loves sinners. And so, as I look at others, I need to see them as someone that Christ loves and minister to them the way that Christ has ministered to me. and He has done so much for me, how could I not do something for Love it. And how does that faith drive your business Yeah, so, I mean, there's a Bible where Matthew 6, verse 33 says, you know, "...but seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you." So really, the priority needs to be God. It's all about Him, what Christ has done. And so as I put Him first, And I seek Him first. All these things. If I want more properties, or if I want more wealth, or if I want more—seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness. And that goes along with it. A wholly separated life, and His righteousness, and all these things. All these things you're looking at, Mike. All these things you want, Mike. And maybe those things will change as I focus more on Christ. That's Love that. All right, so let's kind of move into the bit of the entrepreneurship and the construction. You left your ministry and you started a construction company, Yeah, I mean, I literally had no way to pay—like the disciples, I had dropped the boat and nets and followed Christ, and the ministry just didn't work out. And we could go into that on some other time, but really it was just a very hardship. I mean, I can say it without bawling today, but it was a very difficult time for our family. I left a very lucrative career at UPS, sold all my stock in UPS, and invested it all into going into the ministry. and now here I am out of the ministry and I needed something to do. And I started this construction business. I bought, there was a friend of mine bought a truck and a trailer. This is just in 2007, so not too long ago. Bought a truck and trailer, an old F-150 with a little trailer for $1,900. He bought it in auction. He said, Mike, I'll sell it to you for the same price. I started my company with a$1,900 truck and trailer and really started answering the phone when people would call. And this is the thing, I did work, and I think I told you the story, but I did work for a real estate lady. And I said, I'll do it for $50. I mean, I was just so hungry, needed to pay bills. It was a drywall patch on a wall. And she said, Mike, the drywall is already there, you just need to paint it. So I get over there, the drywall, I put the drywall in backwards. It was bulging out of the wall, like three quarters of an inch. I called her, I said, listen, I got to start over. I got to cut this out and put it in, you know, and paint it and everything else. She said, well, what are you going to charge? I said, I quoted you $50. It's going to be $50. She said, well, no, Mike, you can't do that. I said, it's $50. She goes into a meeting with 150 real estate agents, pulls up her phone and says, you need a contractor. Call Mike Donaldson and gave my number out. My phone rang off the hook for the next 16 years. And you think about business models, and again, I'm not a big, with all the different jargon, but I would say my business model at Donaldson Construction was you answer the phone when it rings, you show up on time every time, and you do the job for the price you quoted. And that simple business model got me more work than I could ever handle. Yeah. So simple, but so hard to execute on, right? That's great. So what was the hardest Probably the hardest part was not knowing where the next job was coming from because we never advertised. And so we would just literally pray and hope the phone rang for the jobs. So the hardest part was sometimes waiting. And then sometimes when you're waiting, you're quoting the job lower than it really should be to get the job, then your margins aren't where they need to be. that's a that's a tough place to be where you're where you need the work and and so and that was many many years and into it and we got to the last few years it wasn't like that but but many years it Yep. Yeah. I imagine that that's, that's the difficult part about running, running a business. That's not based on reoccurring revenue, right? Every, if you've got some reoccurring customers and realtors, but, uh, building that, uh, business of, of reoccurring realtors combined So selling it was, I moved to a fixed income, because I basically sold it to my son. My son is now running the company, and I get a monthly check. But before, when the business did well, my revenue was higher. But now, I've really moved to somewhat of a fixed income, like a retiree. It's probably a little larger than most retirees, but it's still a fixed income. So I've had to really learn to, do without some things that I've normally Got it. Got it. All right. So now you've sold the company, you've transitioned into real estate. Why So it really goes, again, back to my Christian values of stewardship. God has given me this money, so I sold the house for way more money than I thought I was going to sell for. As a matter of fact, I told the realtor, this is what I want out of the house, and we got like $50,000 more than even what I wanted for the house. And so I was just blown away. And so I had this chunk of money, more money than I ever had in a bank account. And I was like, what am I doing with this? It's God's money. We know this, that every dollar I have, everything I have in my account or in my pocket is God's. And so I need to be a good steward of it. So I said, what am I doing with this money? It's just sitting here earning 5% is what it was at. And I said, well, real estate market here in Greenville is just booming. And I said, I need to do something with it. So I bought my first flip home that I worked on for myself personally for five months, six months, hard labor under there, pulling out the cast iron pipe, everything, added a new bathroom. I mean, just did crazy amounts of work to this house. Well, I'm from Chicago and a busy street means nothing in Chicago. In Greenville, South Carolina, that means everything. They said, the remodel is beautiful. We love it. We absolutely love this house, but we'd never buy a house on that street. So I was thankful to get out of that with only paying zero. And I made zero. But I learned from that and enjoyed it. But that was my first entrance into real estate. Then we met a guy, this incredible guy, Robert Howell. I'm not kidding. I want to just take a parenthesis here and say, I am so thankful that the Lord has put you in our path, Robert. My partner Bill Denzel and I are just blown away with your generosity and time and consideration. and showing us your business and helping us, because when we met you and started working with the mobile homes and land development, it has been some of the easiest money I've ever made in my life. And it's just, you know, and because of your, and I like, you know, purpose-driven investors, you know, you have invested into people, and I'm one of them. I'm a beneficiary of your investment. And so transitioning from flipping a house that I was laying under an 18-inch subfloor for three weeks doing plumbing and making zero to working in these mobile homes where we can provide incredible value property for somebody and make money, the classic win-win example, that transition from that to that has been amazing for us. So thank you Hey, happy to do it. And it's been a pleasure to work with y'all and get to know you and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. You make it not even work, right? Yeah. I mean, I texted you the other day and I just said, man, Yeah, it's awesome. It's great, especially when you get to work with good people too. What excites you about investing today and transitioning So I love negotiating. So again, back to UPS, they sent me to, I think it was a one-day seminar, $10,000 per person they paid. Because I was in sales and marketing. So we call them Fortune 500 companies. So the decisions we made or the things we said sometimes made the company millions of dollars. So they sent us to this high-level negotiating seminar. And I just saw that person that was teaching the class. I thought, wow, that's just amazing how you can Just structure your words or ask about the needs and build the needs and grow that. But anyway, I love it. Just yesterday, I was last night buying a little case of chlorine tablets from a lady on Facebook Marketplace at Starbucks. And so we already talked about the price and everything. It was $15. And she said she worked at Starbucks. I said, hey, does that include a free latte? And she said, OK, I'll give you a latte too. I just love that kind of stuff. It's not even the money necessarily, but Love that. Need to hire you. I was actually thinking about you yesterday as we have some lots that are coming up for development. I was like, man, I need to call Mike and get him to renegotiate some of the quotes that I have. All right, that's awesome. So as you think back on your previous seasons of life, whether it be early on, or UPS, or ministry, and flipping houses, what do you think about this season that you're in today, and how is it different than the Very good. I mean, you used the word season. That's a Bible term. in the Bible talks about different seasons of life, you know, and we need to consider that. And I was just talking to my wife this morning, wondering, I'm like, you know, where are we? Or what is this? And I think, you know, for me, it's—and Bill, my partner and I, we're just—he was in town, he just left this morning, and we're talking about that a little bit too. For me, it's not the legacy, why our name has legacy, Holmes, legacy. What is my legacy? And really, I want to be known as a Christian, like in my intro there, a Christian who loves the Lord. I love making money, too. I love negotiating, I love making money, but it's the people that I'm involved with. We talked about this the other day, too, you and I. We have guys that work with us, and I just see them and see if there's needs, and I love working with people. love seeing if there's a need, even a spiritual need, or praying with somebody or helping them along the way, whether it's physical or spiritual. I love that part of it. And so for me, this season is, I have time to serve. where sometimes I was so caught up in it, whether my business, you know, I felt sometimes like the business was running me. And now this season is nice to step back, you know, if there's a little money there, that's great. But if I have the time now to go and pressure wash a deck, you know, if somebody needs help or go and do something for somebody else. I mean, I love that. That's incredible to me to have the time to Love that. Love that. We'll call that the season of people. Right. And I think that's that's hugely important. And I think it's a good reminder to have like. you know, maybe earlier in your career, you didn't have time for that, but now you do and you can bless other people. Right. And makes me think of like, well, shoot, maybe I should, you know, maybe I should slow down and, and make sure that there is time for, for people. Right. You get so rushed and like, you know, it's like, Hey, right now in the season I'm in, it's like, man, I've got like three minutes to talk to you and I got to move on to the next conversation. And Yeah. People are not a means to an end. People are the end. I mean, it's not, you know, I don't step on them to get somewhere. I walk alongside and put my arm around Love that. All right. That's awesome. All right. So let's talk about faith driven investing and some of the stewardship that you execute. So when you think about real estate, what does stewardship mean to you in terms of Yes, so for me, again, the money is not the end. It's something that my former pastor would say, God gives to us, and we have our hands out. We take in the stuff in our pockets. Our pockets are full, and we have no more place to put our money. But if we take it and put it out, take it from above, hand it out, we're just a channel, and we can let this blessing flow through us. And that's really how I see it. I mean, we haven't talked about India. I'm going to India in a couple weeks. I've been there 10 times, and I'm involved in a ministry over there that we started with six students. I taught in the Bible. I'm barely qualified to teach in a Bible college, but I taught in the Bible college there, and with six students. This year, we have just under 200 students in our Bible college. That's incredible. Two guys in our church were praying about supporting these men that graduated from a Bible college that was out there. They said, what's it take to start a church in India? And they said, well, about $150 a month. And so right down the spot, they started two churches and planted two churches. We currently have eight churches that we've planted and graduated dozens of students. And now they're preaching and teaching the love of Christ all through India, which is just amazing. We have sewing institutes, we have an orphanage, and we have a campus that's just a bustling campus of 30 acres with several buildings on it. We used to have one rented room when I started it. So for me, stewardship is Taking that money, taking what I can earn from real estate and finding avenues like that, like in India, where they don't have even housing or So the impact you can make with just a So, yeah, cool. So, you know, you're just getting into the land home, but you and Bill have rapidly grown and, you know, had had great success already in the land home development, land and mobile home development. How do you stay grounded when these opportunities grow? Because you guys are, you have big goals for the year for 2026. And, you know, clearly Yes. Bill had a friend, an acquaintance in real estate that said, you know, the opportunity of a lifetime comes about once a year. And we have modified that a little bit. I think the opportunity of a lifetime comes about once a week in this business that we're in. And it is just, it's so exciting. So, I guess to stay grounded, I'm an emotional guy. You can maybe not tell today, but I'm like, just let's do it. I'm more like Peter in the Bible, you know, Lord, let's build a tabernacle, you know. And, you know, wait a minute, Bill's more of the, you know, level-headed, you know, wait a minute, let's think this through. Let's do the due diligence. And so, we make a great team in our partnership. So, Bill helps keep me grounded because I would probably be out just buying all kinds of bad deals out there every day. It really is. However, we've had success in the ones we've bought and done so far, and we're looking at another one today. We actually might go under contract on a real exciting one today. Let's go. So we're really excited about it. We spent the whole day yesterday just looking through it. And again, it's just balancing it off of each other and not getting too emotional about it. And I am emotional, but I have to temper that and say, OK, how is this going to make money? Even on that first flip, my wife said, let's do it. And I said, there's no way this thing's not going to make $50,000 or $100,000. And I came at the end and said, honey, I am so sorry. I missed it. and we're going to make zero on this thing." And she was gracious and forgave me. But I was like, that was really not the wisest move Funny you say that. Sometimes I'll go to my wife and I'll get excited and say, Oh, it's going to be great. We're going to make tons of money. Then the next day I'm like, why are you buying that Starbucks coffee? You know, we don't need to be paying for that. You just told me you're gonna make tons of money. Um, all right. That's awesome. So, um, as you think about faith and finance, how Yeah, so, you know, I believe it's an arguable term, but the tithe is something mentioned through Scripture, and since I understood tithing, financial biblical tithing, I have done that. And I think, again, it goes, again, with that Matthew 6, verse 33, "...seek ye first the kingdom of God." And his right should put him first. I mean, I would literally be to a point where we had a checkbook, which we don't really keep that much anymore. But, you know, I would the first check out of the month when I was paid monthly UPS, I would. right to the Lord. And so, I think putting it—and it's not a legalistic, I tithe, so now I can do whatever I want. It's all God's. He asks for 10% in a tithe, but as I remember, the other 90% is still His. It's always on my mind that this is the Lord's money, and I need to be a wise steward of it. So that's the balance between the two. It's I love that perspective because you could, you know, you tie the year and you say, hey, I'm going to tie the 10 percent. But to your point, the other 90 percent, you still need to be good steward of. Right. And, you know, how you define being a good steward is probably different for everybody. Right. But still And then when you have that, when you have extra or whatever, then, you know, I think I shared this verse with you in Proverbs 3.27, you know, withhold not good to whom it is due when it's in the power of thine hand to do it. So if I have opportunity to help somebody, don't withhold it. That's what God's telling me. Don't withhold. Withhold not good, Mike. You know, now there's a qualifier to whom it's due. You know, I have to understand that the guy that's standing in front of a liquor store asking me for 20 bucks probably not is the guy that needs the $20 right there. You know, to whom it is due, but it's in the power of my hand to do it, and I cannot withhold it. I'm That's great. All right. Let's move final section before we go into the lightning round of questions. We'll talk a little bit about legacy. You know, given your your view on legacy and long term vision, you even named your company after it. What what does legacy mean Legacy, again, is somewhat financial, but it's really more, who was Mike Donaldson? What do you want on your tombstone? I'm always wanting to be early everywhere, so my wife says she's going to put, he wanted to get there a little early. That's great. But really, what do you want said of you at your funeral? Not a bunch of lies or a bunch of people faking what they think about you, but what do you really want people to think of you? And I'd like to be thought of as a guy that loved God and loved others. And as Christ has I would say just do right. I mean, it's don't get caught up in it. You have to make money. And I understand that. And I'm a big margin guy. I'm always talking about the margin. I'm always worried about that. Not worried, but wondering about what are we going to make on this? Do I want to build stick homes? I'm thinking I could build a stick house for $300,000 or $400,000 or $500,000 house and make $100,000 or $150,000. Or I could place three or four mobile homes and make more than that in the same amount of time. You know, so, so it's, you know, so it's margin Got it. All right. So let's go to the lightning round. We have four or five questions here. Um, just a speed round. What's your favorite season of I love pastoring a church. I think there's very few people in this world that actually do, if they could choose anything in the world that they could do, that they've done it. You know, like, who gets to the end of their career and said, man, I did exactly what I want to do, or even at any point in their career. But when I was in there, it was a small church in California, sitting there in the study and studying the Word and praying. preaching and teaching the people, the congregation, there was no Really just Just my pride gets in the way sometimes. I think I'm right. And I look back even at that flip. The realtor said, it's on a busy road. And he probably said it three or four times. And I just discounted it because I was so convinced we can make that place beautiful. And we did. But it didn't matter how beautiful it was. Just talking to a guy at church last night, he said, location, location, location. Yeah, exactly. The All right, one daily habit that keeps you grounded, one daily habit that you live by every day. So, praying and reading your Bible is a daily habit that, you know, again, I've gone through seasons of legalism of that, of, you know, gotta pray and read your Bible, and it maybe never meant anything to me. But I think that praying and just surrendering to God—somebody wrote a book on P-R-A-Y, praising the Lord, repenting of your sin, asking the Lord for things, and yielding to Him. and taking that acronym and using that for your life is I think my life verse is, you know, the goodness of God leadeth to repentance, Romans 2.4. But I say that verse, Proverbs 3.27, withholding not good to whom it's due, is probably a principle that Great. Last question here in the lightning round. What does purpose I've thought about this and I thought. really investment is we think, I think most people when they see that think financial, but as I've thought about it between you and my relationship, you have invested in me. And that is, and it has been purposeful. And so your time spent showing me and Bill the business and being available on calls, you are investing. If you said, Mike, I'll give you my mentorship, or I'll give you a million dollars, if I took the million dollars, I'd be a Love it. That's great. All right. Well, hey, that concludes all the questions and the conversation today. Mike, it's been great having you here. I really appreciate the time. I know you're busy. We're all busy. But for you to take 30 minutes and spend it with us is So if you want to call me, if you're listening, you want to call me again, I don't know a lot, but I'll give you my phone number 630-777-1619. Feel free to call me again. I don't, if I, if I know anything, it's because Robert taught me. So I I would say, uh, Mike is, uh, adds huge value and, um, and huge insights and real estate and life. So. If you guys want to reach out to Mike, feel free to reach out to him. He's a great guy and a good friend. So I appreciate you joining, Mike. And for everybody listening, I think Mike's story reminds us that success is not necessarily how much you accumulate. It's who you become and who you serve along the way and how you serve those people along the way. So I appreciate you joining, Mike. It's been a pleasure and look forward to the next conversation. We're Thanks for listening to The Purpose Driven Investor. If today's episode sparked an idea or inspired you to make an impact, connect with me at howellandsons.com. Join our community of purpose-driven investors who are helping families find stable homes while building real returns. Because when