Welcome to the Purpose Driven Investor, where we build more than portfolios, we build communities. I'm your host, Robert Howell, a real estate investor and founder of Define Communities. Each week, we'll explore how purpose and profit connect through affordable housing, land home packages, and impact-driven investing. If you're a lender, land seller, or a partner who believes money should move with meaning, you're in the right place. Welcome back to the show, the Purpose Driven Investor Podcast, a show focused on the people behind the deals, their mission, their values, and the impact they're creating through real estate and entrepreneurship. Today's guest is Chris Maddox, founder of M51. Chris is a Greenville, South Carolina-based real estate investor who specializes in flips, owner financing deals, and creative strategies that solve real problems for sellers while creating strong, secured opportunities for private lenders. What sets Chris apart isn't that how he structures deals, it's why he does them. His business is built around integrity, flexibility, and win-win thinking, with a long-term focus on time freedom, financial independence, and making a meaningful impact. Today, we're going to talk through his journey, how his philosophy has evolved, and what it really looks like to build wealth without losing yourself in Let's go. All right. So, um, I always like to start these conversations out really with the beginning and kind of the origin story and the purpose. So why don't we start there and tell us how you first got into real estate investing. Yeah, for sure. So I think it's probably I think a similar a similar thing for all of us in this arena is like time freedom. You know, I mean, probably most people have like a job. So you have to go to the job to make the money and all this stuff. And, you know, I think a lot of us that are more entrepreneurial driven, you know, it's kind of like, I mean, if I'm going to put in all these hours and I'm going to put on all this effort, like, why don't I just do something for myself? And so then I started finding out about, you know, OPM, other people's money. There's a lot of people that want to invest, but they don't want they don't want to be involved in the property management or the project management or just tenants and toilets and trash, all this stuff. But they have they have capital to use. You know, and then, you know, so when you start figuring things out like that, you can connect with them and say, Hey, I've got some great opportunities. Now you have great collateral, you know, a good loan to value. I can, you know, I can pay you a, you know, a fixed return. You don't have to worry about it. There's no up and down in the market. You know, you, you, you start making those relationships. And, you know, I mean, so when I, that was kind of the first nugget for me, you know, I was like, Oh, so I don't have to have like, you know, $200,000 of my own money to start doing things. That was kind of the, that was the starting point. So then, you know, after that, you know, I'm kind of a, I think I generally think, how, how can I, how can I cut the learning curve down as fast as possible, you know, and so then, you know, I kind of got into like masterminds, you know, and there are some are free, some are paid, you know, so I started, you know, looking around and trying to see like, you know, who makes sense for me. And so I joined two different masterminds right out of the gate that were paid. But, you know, it's really about getting in the room with the right people, you know, and learning and absorbing as much as you can, you know, and they broke things down, you know, very sort of like structural. So I like that, you know, because I feel like my learning is better that way. And so, you know, that was just kind of the beginning. You know, I just started, like, feeding on stuff as fast as I can and learning. And I'm a really big, like, action taker. Like, I'm going to learn something and turn right around and put it into play, you know, and let kind of the lesson also be a guiding, you know, a guiding teaching principle. Like, I don't want to be someone that, you know, just learns all I love that there's a guy actually I'm part of a few masterminds and I was talking with a guy not part of the mastermind but I was I was like hey what how do you apply what you learn from the masterminds the best and how do you execute on it you know what I do is when I'm at the two-day conference and I'm sitting there in the room I start executing in the room and Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as soon as you can start working, you know, those those little nuggets that you learn, you know, those things that you hear about the theories, the formulas, whatever, you know, as soon as you can put them into play. I mean, you know, it's it's way it's it's just way better. And I think that. you know, I don't have to have 100% of the information, which we never get, you know, I mean, I need enough, you know, to feel confident to move forward on something, but I don't, I think I understand that I'm not going to be able to get all of the pieces to the pie, you know, so part of that is, you know, is based with, you Got it. All right. So what was going on in your life when you started M51? Like So a hairstylist, actually. Oh, wow. Okay. Owned a couple of hair salons. I've had a bunch of employees, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I did it myself. I started when I was like 23. I did it for like 30 years. Actually, I still do it a couple of days a week. I mean, my clients are awesome. You know, and a lot of them are actually my private lenders, you know, on things. So I wanted to keep that connection, you know, because I see them all the time, you know, and I'm always talking about deals and things like that. And so, you know, even though I work for myself in that arena, you know, It's also a little bit of what I started out saying. You have to show up. You got to show up to do the service to make the money. I'm a little bit like one foot on the boat, one foot on the dock. I'm half and half on the investing and still working as a hairstylist. I really it's creative field. I enjoy it. You know, I meet a lot of new people. So it's almost like I've got a little resource, That's great, man. I need a haircut, by the way. So Anyway, it's very similar. There's a very similar dichotomy between the two, like the people skills and figuring things out quickly, running a business, all that stuff. I mean, it just translates over into what we do on the investing side really well. That's cool. Yeah. I bet there are a lot of synergies there. Early on, what kind of mistakes did you make that really shaped how you invest I think I probably limited myself to just flipping houses. I wasn't really going down early the creative side of things. I didn't really care about holding, buy and hold. I wasn't really a passive income person, all that kind of stuff. In my head, I was like, okay, I'm gonna flip houses, make a big chunk of money, and just keep that going forward. And anyone that flips, you know, knows it's just not that smooth, like all the time, you know, and it's actually like the longest period in between start and finish and actually getting a hold of any of the money, you know, so I would say limiting myself to just that one thing was probably if I could go back and talk to myself, I would say, hey, listen, be open for That's great. That's great. Um, and talk about your purpose. What's Um, you know, I think probably for me, like I've got two girls, uh, they're 18 and 20. I love them to death. I'd love to be able to have something for them down the road, you know, to maybe lighten their load, help them out down the road. You know, that's probably a big driving factor for me. Um, the other thing is, uh, time, you know, like, like, If someone dropped $50 million in my bank account, I would still work. I'm still kind of like that. You know, I would be bored to death, you know, not that it wouldn't be awesome, but... You'd be sitting on a yacht instead. I might be working from a yacht. So I just like, I think I like to figure things out. I like to be thinking about things and I like a challenge. I feel like I'm usually driven towards things that are challenging, you know, because it keeps you, you know, just kind of keeps you tuned up, I think, you know, like you like your brain. So I just like I like talking to people and figuring out, you know, deal structures and things like that. So, you know, that's probably probably Yeah. That's great. That's great. Yeah. I'm similar. I've got two boys, they're freshmen and junior in high school and I'd love for long-term, maybe they join, maybe they don't, but I like how you said it, you know, maybe it's not necessarily a business for them to take over, but could it lighten their load later Yeah, I think I just think it's really nice to have options, you know, and so I would like to be able to have an option for them, whether it's taking over or whether and it's just whether it's just having something that helps them out, you know, like month to month, year to That's great. All right, cool. Well, let's move on to M51, your philosophy, how you create win-win investing there. So you've talked a lot about creating win-win deals, and I read a bit about your bio. Talk about what that actually means So like, I just don't, I just feel like integrity is like the most important thing. You know, your reputation, relationships, your integrity, like how you carry yourself, how you speak to people. And I don't want to make a one-sided deal. Like, I don't think that we're actually, I mean, we're supposed to be helping people. not taking advantage of them. So I think there are really a lot of ways that we can structure deals so that everyone comes out with what they want. And so that's where the creative comes in. I mean, cash is not always the way to get it done. I think when you're able to sit down and talk to someone and ask the right questions about what are they looking for? What are their needs? What's helpful? What's not helpful? Laying all the cards out. It's not that a deal is going to work out every single time, but I want to carry myself into a situation with you know, with the integrity that I'm saying, and, and just to be able to give options to people, you know, that are that are interested in selling their house for whatever the reason is, you know, it could be motivation or not. But I just think that's, I just think that's important. You know, I don't, I mean, they don't need a one sided deal. It's not good for me. And I don't need a one sided deal. It's not good for them, you know. So I think just I think just creatively putting things together that makes sense for everyone, you know, Love it. How do you approach sellers who are I think talking less, listening more, you know, asking questions, hearing what, what's the struggle, like what's, you know, what's the pain point, what's going on and not, Yep. That's good. Love that. Um, you talk about integrity, you talk about doing the right thing. How do you, how do you balance strong returns, which I'm sure you're after with, with Right. Well, I mean, obviously on our side, we have to, we have to make sense of the deal. You know, it's got, it's gotta be something that we can, you know, if it's, it may not be something that we can turn around and, and make money with or a good return, you know, tomorrow, maybe, um, something that, you know, we plan for five years from now, you know, and that's where, you know, like like a lease option, for instance, you know, comes in. So I think that I think that you just have to look at it, you know, as in, you know, kind of now time frame and then time frame and just sort of lay those lay those numbers out and see kind of where they're coming from, what they need, how can we put this together? And, you know, it kind of organically turns Right. Right. That's great. Yeah. I think you can, I love how you kind of put the sellers in mind to say, well, maybe it's, you know, your, your goal is today's profit. Right. But that's maybe not what's best for the seller. And so is there a way to, to relook at it? Right. And maybe it becomes a good deal for the seller if you turn it into a long-term And the other side of that is your relationships, you know, that like we like you and I or, you know, other people that we know in the industry that, you know, we can maybe carry that into, you know, like I can do this long term if I work with, you know, Robert, you know, on this deal, you know, and then we can we can we can partner on it somehow. Or maybe you've got something I can trade. I mean, there's It's really endless. I mean, I think we're limited by our knowledge, you know, like how much, you know, we know and how many people, you know, it's always the, you know, your network is your net worth. So, you know, I just, I'm Let's go. All right. Let's talk about a recent deal and your strategy. Walk us through a recent flip or maybe Oh, yeah, sure. So let's see. I'll talk about so I'll try to summarize. So I don't like chew up a lot of time. But there was a there was a couple. They were a little bit older. They had a big house. This is here in Greenville. And they wanted to sell their house. And they were looking for a number that was not a cash price. So, you know, I made them an offer. I always make an offer of cash, you know, but I also give them other options. So you really are trying to find out, are you looking for top dollar? Are you looking for like speed? Because they kind of lead you in different directions when you're talking to them. And so they wanted, they were more like dollar. And so they had a payoff. I don't remember all the exact numbers. They had a payoff around 250, let's just say. And so they were willing to do some type of terms like owner financing or carry back some of the balance. But they needed money to move into another house they were trying to buy. And they needed a certain down payment and so on and so forth. So the structure ended up like this. If I pay off your current mortgage, which is, let's say,$250,000, they wanted like $500,000 for the house. They needed moving money and down payment money, which was like another $100,000. there was a balance left over of like the two. And so I said, okay, if we pay that off, give you the cash in the close, would you carry back that 200 for the term was like, it was like 20 years roughly. And it came to be like, I don't know, 600 something dollars a month. And I came to that number because their current payment was like $1,100 or something like that. Their new house, even though it was smaller, had a much higher interest rate because they just moved like a year ago and rates were higher. So there was about a $600, $700 difference in the payment. So I said, if we make that difference in your payment, you're kind of still paying your $1,100. And so they were like, right. So we created a note that we actually secured for them on a different property. So it free and cleared up their house for us to be able to renovate and sell. And it gave us more space to work, like on that house. So if you sell it for a little bit under what you think, you know, it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect the note. So you're effectively making them your private lender, you know, for the money, and it was at 0%. So like, you know, I had a $200,000, a $600 something payment for like 22 years. So you know, on your side, you have to be sure that you're making that payment. But for their safety and security, their note is on a different house. They're like the bank for that house. So they get a house worth say$275,000 as their collateral for$200,000. So it's also a good deal for them. And it's kind of like turning your equity into a retirement account. So getting the payment supplemented. So they're still, their expense ratio in their new house is the same by the monthly payment difference. I'm getting the house at a a terms that work for me, you know, so it's really, it's really a cool setup and it sounds kind of great infusing, but if you write it all out on paper, someone can read through and go, Oh yeah, okay, well, that's, that's pretty cool, you know? So that, that would be, that would be, you know, one of the more creative That's great. Did you sound like, I work with Chris Gavry and you sound like Chris Gavry when you're explaining that, like that's, those are the kinds of deals he likes to do. And I'm like, could you just say that in plain English? But like you said, when you write it down, it's, it's number one, it creates a win for everybody. It sounds, and number two, it's actually pretty simple once Yeah, and the same thing with them. I mean, you know, when you first start talking about it, you know, they got a little bit of a puzzle look on their face, which most people do. But when, you know, when you start, you know, saying, OK, listen, right now, you know, Wells Fargo is your bank, you know, and you pay them and they're secure on your house. So it's that same setup. You know, you're going to be the bank secured on my house. You know, you get the mortgage and the promissory note and all the stuff and you get the payment. So it's you know, when you start trying to break it down, then it Yep. That's great. That's great. All right. So how do you, how do you work with private lenders on your deals and how do you ensure Yeah, so I mean, the biggest thing working with private lenders is making sure that, like you said, they're secure on the deal at a rate that works and at a timeframe that works for them. And so the majority of the time, they're getting a lien on the property that I'm buying at a rate that we agree on and a timeframe that we agree on. So like, if I didn't pay them, they have a collateral that the value is a lot more than what their investment is. So that's really safe and secure for them. So they're basically the bank and banks aren't going to loan on something where there's not a security for them or a margin. So I'm never over a 75% loan to value for that investment. So that leaves them a minimum of a 25% buffer for if there was any kind of swing in the market, which we know that usually there's not some kind of dip that takes out 25% of your house value. I mean, you know, down, you know, three or 5%, you know, but you know, that's, that's, that Yep. That's great. Um, all right, let's talk about wealth and time and impact. Um, How has your definition of success changed over time? And that could be, that could be from the time that you started your career and as a salon owner, or, or maybe you can talk about real estate, either, either way is fine. But I'd love to kind of understand how, you know, as you thought about success at the beginning versus how you think about it now, what's Well, it's definitely going to be different, you know, throughout your years, you know, when you're 20s and 30s, you know, you're, you're, you're different than like, I'll be 55 this year, you know, so like, your, your mindset is a lot different on, you know, what you're looking for, and what's valuable to you. And so now, you know, I'm more like, how can I create more time freedom for me, you know, obviously, you have to, you have to make money and pay bills, and you want to save and do all the things, travel, whatever. But I would say the most important thing is time because you think about that more. You think about your mortality and things like that. The other thing is, I'm definitely more on the creating monthly cash flow versus how can I get a big chunk of money? If a deal worked out like that, that's fine, but it's probably not the top priority. I'm like, I need to create more, you know, more wealth and more passive, you know, income, you know, like now is the focus, you And you told me your daughters are out of the house. And so it's just you and your dogs. And why is time freedom so important to Yeah, because I just want to I don't want to feel bound to something. I want to be able to choose, you know, when and where that I utilize my time, where I put my energy, you know, whether it's going for a walk, you know, or going to the park with my dogs or being able to take my girl somewhere for the weekend. You know, I just I want to have that as an option Love that. So in your bio, you talked about helping kids in need. Tell me about that. What are you doing to help these kids? And why I've just always liked kids, I guess. I always wanted to be at all the events that my girls did, whether it was dance or a sport or something at school. I didn't want to miss any of that because I was trying to think ahead and go, I don't want to look back. and feel like, God, I should have whatever I should have done that. You know, I don't I don't want is I'm trying to minimize the coulda shoulda woulda, you know, like in my life, because once that time frame is gone, like it's it's out of here, you know, we can't recapture that. And so, you know, with With kids, they're just more dependent like on us, you know, and there's a lot of kids that are in rotten situations, you know, like whether it's a medical thing or they just had, you know, crappy upbringing. And so, like recently, you know, I went with some people to St. to Shriners downtown. It was like over Halloween. And, you know, they just. They just set up this big table and handed out like, you know, little presents and candy and stuff to the kids, you know. And, you know, I got a I got a big spreadsheet of needs, you know, that like I could like donate, you know, donate things to because, you know, the kids, the families, they need stuff like that. I don't know, man. I just feel like giving back is is. what we should do, you know, I mean, like God gives me the ability to wake up and do something with my life. And I just want to, Yep. That's great. Love that. All right. Let's, let's move into the rapid fire and then we'll wrap this up. So I have four questions for you during this rapid fire. So we'll start with what's your biggest lesson that real estate has taught you to date? Uh, biggest lesson is be open for possibilities. Love it. All right. One belief about money that you've changed. Um, you can have less of it and have a great life. Perfect. Best advice for a new investor. Uh, relationship building all day long. Man, that's so true. You do Imagine if you were 20, 22 and just getting started and you were intentional about relationship. You're right about that. Be huge. Um, you know, just probably just more of the, you know, I'm trying to, I'm just trying to do more creative deals. And, you know, I'm trying to, uh, I've got a couple of groups that I go to that are, that are actually local. Yeah. You've been to our gym, Jim's group. No, um, there's a few people in there that I've enjoyed, uh, learning from that are like levels above me, you know, but I just, I bug them all the time, man, just trying to, you know, learn, learn more creative strategies and, um, You know, so I think just I think just tuning up my creative knowledge, you know, like even better, because it just helps me go into a deal with more options to talk to the seller about, you know, which can create more wins for both of us. So, you know, just building a passive side, you know, or monthly cash flow, you know, sometimes it's not passive. But I think that's just probably where more of my focus is now as far as investing goes. Got it. All right. Last question. This is actually a bonus question here. What's My goals, my goals would be to drop some, I'm at the salon four days a week, you know, so not, not full time, but I think a goal would be to shave off, you know, another day and be able to, you know, put that time more into the investing side and probably to take my girls on some kind of cool trip. Love it. All right. What, uh, tell us, how can people reach you? Oh, yeah. I mean, man, I'm like, I can communicate any way that someone else likes to communicate, whether it's text or email or, you know, like Facebook messenger or whatever. But, you know, I have, um, I mean, you want me to just give out my, you give out your info if you want here. Yeah, that's fine. So if you want to do like a call, my phone number is 864-918-6171. And I'm happy to like just share resources with people, whether it's like agreements and contracts or just any of that kind of stuff that people might need, you know. The other thing is that my email would be my last name, Maddox, M-A-D-D-O-X, investmentproperty at Gmail. And then, um, you know, I'm on Facebook and stuff. And so it's just, uh, So yeah, just talking about stuff or showing a project I'm working on or something, you know, for fun. Um, so you can Facebook me, um, I get on Instagram occasionally, but you know, that's probably a little a That's good. Well, reach out to Chris if you're interested in learning about flipping, learning about creative strategies. If you're a private lender, maybe want to invest. I think Chris is a great resource, provides a lot of great information online and has a lot of great experience that he could share with you. So thanks for joining, Chris. And thank you, everybody, for listening. Yes. Thank you. Thanks for listening to The Purpose Driven Investor. If today's episode sparked an idea or inspired you to make an impact, connect with me at howellandsons.com. Join our community of purpose-driven investors who are helping families find stable homes while building real returns. Because when