Welcome to the Purpose Driven Investor where we build more than portfolios, we build communities. I'm your host, Robert Howell, a real estate investor and founder of Define Communities. Each week we'll explore how purpose and profit connect through affordable housing, land home packages and impact driven investing. If you're a lender, land seller, or a partner who believes money should move with meaning, you're in the right place. Foreign welcome back to the Purpose Driven Investor podcast. Today I'm joined by someone who's in the middle of some of the biggest changes in real estate finance. Over the last 20 years, he's helped facilitate more than $8 billion in real estate transactions, bought nearly 2,000 properties, helped build Blackstone's BTR Finance, founded the REI Expo, and today he's the CEO. CEO of Turnus. But what really interests me isn't the size and the numbers, it's how he continues to lead people, continue to serve investors instead of Wall Street. So, Tim, thanks for being here. Robert, thanks for having me, man. All right, well, let's kick it off here and start about your story. And really I like to start about the beginning. I imagine you weren't born running billion dollar lending platform. So tell us about the young Tim. How'd you find real estate? What was your first deal? Young Tim graduated high school late out of summer school because young Tim had attendance problems. Young Tim went to the Marine Corps because college wasn't an option and he thought it sounded cool to be James Bond and travel the world. And then I grew up in the construction industry with my stepdad, my mom building houses. My grandparents were realtors. So I'd kind of always been around real estate. When I got out of the Marine Corps, I got a job as a project manager and you know, golly, just, just ran construction and owner finance sales for a year. And at the end of the year, the guy that owned the company said, hey, do you mean you me to teach you how to buy houses? I said, absolutely. So the first house was 811 Kelso in Dallas, Texas. This would have been in 2002. I get confused. Yeah. We drive by, there's a for rent sign nailed to the tree. And my boss, mentor at the time, Tim Cox, like, hey, we're gonna try to buy this house. I'm like, you're an idiot, dude. It says for rent. It doesn't say for sale. He's like, let's go. Let me show you how this works, right? And so we cold call these people. It's a, it's a, it's A phone number out of state. The house like, isn't being mowed. They just inherited the house and they wanted to rent it out. And, you know, I got, I got found out where the key was so I could go in and look at renting it. I didn't tell him I wanted to buy it. And then his stick with the way he did it is like, the next day we called, said, hey, I talked to my parents and they said they'd loan me the money, but I can only give you 40,000. And by the way, back then, that house was worth like 120. Today it's probably worth 450. Um, so there's another part of that. And it was crazy. I asked 40,000 and offered 40,000. And they counted like 85 or 83, I can't remember. And my, my boss was like, that's good. And I was like, how is that good, right? Cause you have to remember like the year before. This is kind of lesson number one in real estate investing. What's a lot of money to some people isn't a lot of money to others, right? You may be in a phase of your life where thousand bucks is a lot of money, right? You may be in a phase of your life where a hundred thousand dollars a lot of money. You may be in the phase of your life where a million dollars really isn't a lot of money. I mean, it just, it happens. And so that Tim was like, all right, we're gonna call and we're gonna counter 48, 000. And I'm like, man, we are wasting our time. And we offered 48,000, came up from 40. They call the next day and they're like, we'll take 63,000. And that was kind of lesson number one, because like the year before, I had been in combat and I made eighteen hundred and ten dollars a month, right? So for someone to overnight give away$20,000, I just didn't understand it. And he's like, all right, we're moving in the right direction. We're going to raise Our offer to 52. Final offer, and they'll take it. I'm like, you are nuts. Like, they've already come down 20 something thousand dollars. They're not 10,000. Well, sure enough, they signed the contract at 52 the next day. And man, I was hooked after that. So I, I started buying houses for all these other people. And I was the number one buyer in the nation for HomeVestors, the We Buy ugly houses group. I worked for a franchisee. I'll Fast forward because it's obviously over 20 years. Got tired of being an employee. Called a hard money lender. Took him to lunch at a barbecue place, said, hey, will you finance me? And he said, hey dude, we've been doing a lot of business back and forth. Love the way you work. Let's partner up. By the time I was 28, I built 100 house portfolio then, then a great recession happened. Well, actually wait. In 2006, met my wife, she already owned a home investors franchise. Stopped the other partnerships partnered with her. Flipped 143 houses in 2007, then the market collapsed. Lost millions and millions and millions of dollars. By the time 09 rolled around, I was a volunteer firefighter and a stay at home dad and my wife was a full time foreclosure REO agent. And you know, I kind of thought if I could just get a job as a firefighter, I was done with real estate. But that wasn't in God's plan for me. I ended up getting back into real estate. Started the REI Expo in 2010, sold that to Think Realty 2013 through that, met the guys at Blackstone through that, you know, started financing houses. I had restarted my probate list marketing in 2010 and I was so I was wholesaling and flipping and building my rental portfolio back. Just through it all, man. You know, just lesson after lesson after lesson. And I always say this and I'll stop, I'll stop talking. I'm sure you want to ask me something. Ultimately, through it all, you always have problems. They just come with more zeros and more commas. Right? You know, so it's like, you know, when I first got into this, I mean, I signed a five million dollar warehouse line of credit yesterday. If you told me I'd be borrowing 5 million on top of 25 million, on top of raising 50 mil, 15 million, I'd have told you you were nuts. I mean, but now it's just like I'm having a board meeting later this month or in July where we're gonna authorize another 50 million dollar raise. So it's just, it's just different, right? And so it's been fun. I'm a constant learner, I'm an eager learner. I give back and I'm glad you had me here today. That's huge. That's huge. Lots of ups and downs, but sounds like more ups than downs. And you think about back in your, your first boss and mentor offering to show you, hey, let me, let me show you how to buy houses and Imagine if that moment didn't happen, right? And you got to appreciate people that are willing to pour into other people and show them the way, right? Well, yeah. And, you know, the second half of that lesson is when you get in the position to do that, you better treat people right. Because ultimately, the only reason I ever left his company, because you got to remember, I didn't have a real taste of anything yet. I was a loyal Marine. I was a hard worker, but he didn't treat me right and he didn't pay me on time. And I mean, I'll never forget, it was Christmas of 2002, and I'm sitting at the Christmas party at their really nice house in East Dallas, which is now today's value is probably a mil and a half, 2 million. And, man, those suckers owe me like 11,000,$13,000. I can't remember the number back commissions, profit share that they never gave me. And I'm sitting there with an overdrawn bank account, and I'm just looking around the room, I'm like, what are we doing here? And I quit the next day after I borrowed, literally had to borrow money from the guy for gas, right? So, I don't know, man. I mean, the next guy that I wouldn't work for, he didn't treat me right. And, you know, the lesson here is it's one thing to give knowledge, it's another thing to uphold your word. And if they had treated me right, I'd still work for them today. I bet you I would have never done the things I did. So it's like, at the time, it seemed like the worst thing in the world. Obviously, hindsight's 20 20, and it ends up being the best thing in the world, so. Right, right. It's interesting. Well, you can say God puts you. Puts people in your life to point you in the direction you need to go. Right. Whether that's, you know, treating you wrong so that you go in a different direction, I guess. Right. Sorrow, suffering, and surrender are kind of required to fulfill your plan on this earth. So talk about lots of. Lots of roller coaster moments and different experiences. What was the moment where you said, hey, this is. This is the business for me. I want to be in real estate, and I want to make this a career. So I'm older than probably all your audience, but when I got out of the Marine Corps, the first thing I did was sell life insurance. And I'll never forget, like, the fourth or fifth week that I was working there, because they would book the appointments and you Just had to go, right? And that's. We didn't have GPS map book in hand and I made like $6,000 that week and I didn't get shot at once. And I just remember comparing that to the time in the Marine Corps and the things that we did and the things that we experienced. And I just remember thinking, man, no, but the thing in the Marine Corps, like this was the, the thing. Whether we were in a combat zone or on leave or sitting at the base cleaning our gear, we got paid the same amount of money. Whether we are awake for 20 hours a day or 12, we got paid the same amount of money, Right. Someone else told me what my time was worth. And I remember when I got that first six thousand three hundred dollar check for a week's worth of work, I remember thinking, nobody will ever, ever tell me what my time's worth again. And that was really the inflection point. And that's why I always wanted upside. I started really wanting commission plus equity, that kind of thing. And then I bought a Carlton Sheets course. No money down real estate. It was great for me because I didn't have any money, so. And it was just, I don't know, it's. Oh, when I got out of the Marine Corps, my gunnery sergeant gave me the rich dad, poor dad book. And nice. You know, Robert Kiyosaki was a former Marine as well. And I remember reading it and thinking, there you go, there you go. And so it was a combination of, I don't come from much. You know, I've, I've, I've had to fire family and evict family out of houses. You know, it's, it's a, we are East Texas through and through. And so I just always had a desire for more and, and, and not just money. It's, I'll tell you, Robert, I mean, I didn't get to go to college because I was a little bit of an S head. But on July 10, I'm taking my son to all seven Ivy League college football programs because he gets amazing grades and he has perfect attendance and he's a great athlete and I think he could go, go get an Ivy League education. So what a great American story wouldn't it be as an entrepreneur to come from a broken family that couldn't afford college and I couldn't even get in with my grades to in one generation turn it around to where my child could go to the Ivy Leagues. That's huge. That's a great story and a great accomplishment, right. For me. He wants to play for the University of Texas. And I said, buddy, he ain't six foot tall, man, like, but you're brilliant, right? He's four nine something GPA out of five. I mean, all honors in AP class. You can go to the Ivys. So yeah, it's fun, man, I tell you, you know, going to the Ivys, playing football, networking there will surely pay off, right? And, and reworking your brain to the way that those guys think. I imagine it would be huge. Well, and I think that's what a lot of Americans don't do, right, is they don't put themselves outside of their comfort zone of their youth. And that's what the Marine Corps did for me, right? It gave me culture, it got me around other ethnicities, other religions, other nationalities, right. It showed me what the world's like. And that's why, you know, I, he wants to join the Naval Academy even, or maybe be a Marine Corps officer. I would rather him not. But that's just me now because I'm an old man and you worry about your kids. But to go to one of those Ivy League schools and to get that culture, get that experience, get that education, the networking would be huge. But I believe it would make him such a well rounded man that he could go on to lead his family and, and his businesses or whatever. Just so much better. Love that. That's great. All right, so let's move on to purpose title the podcast Purpose Driven Investor. Money obviously matters, but we believe purpose lasts. And I imagine you're on the same page. So what's the mission for you that gets you out of bed every single day? I'm in a unique position. I'm 48 years old, I don't have to work. We're good. We could retire right now. And I kind of did retire from. Call it 2018-2021. My son was, you know, getting near the end of, My young. Oldest son was getting near the end of high school and he, we were going to call, he was going to go play college ball and all that. And so I kind of took those years off and we would flip a house a month or something. And I know that may sound like great some people on this podcast, but Remember I've done 20, 30, 40amonth in parts of my career. So a house a month is kind of asleep, boring work for me. That's retirement for you, right? Yeah, I mean, so we went public on Finance of America. So B2R Finance merged with Finance of America and went public via SPAC in 2021 at that time. I have no non competes. I'm not restricted by any agreements. And I got a little money, and I'm day trading. And a good friend of mine. I'm getting to your purpose question, I promise. Jeff Tash, the CEO and founder of RCN Capital, called me and said, hey, what are you doing? And I said, day trading. He goes, oh, my God, what a waste of your talent. Like, he's just such a great man. He goes, come on, man, join me at rcn. Help me, you know, do these things. And. And I was like, nah, I'm good, you know? And then he was gonna be in town. His son Lip was going to tcu, and he calls. He's like, let's go play golf. I was like, oh, yeah, let's go play golf. So we go play golf. And he's like, tim, I'm telling you, you're wasting your talent. You're brilliant. You know, this and that. Let's. Let's find a way to make it work. And I was like, all right, tell you what. No direct reports, no office. I'll travel when I need to, not just because you want me to. And there was something. Oh, I said, now report, and I only answer to you, and that's it. And he was like, we can make this work. And so we worked through it. Took about six months. In December of 21, I became the executive director of RCN Capital. And for the first time in five years, my mind was on fire again. That's awesome. And. And I was like, I was working and thinking, and. And then, as it would have it, In June of 22, I attended my first boardroom Mastermind. And then I see all these people that aren't lazy, right? And I see all these people that are chewing it up, man, making it happen. I'm like, okay, okay. And between June of 22nd, in March of 23, I'd gone to four boardroom meetings. And in March of 23, I drove to Salt Lake City, Utah, for a conference. Took my family with me. We went up. Took them up to park cities. They skied while I worked. And I re. Listened to Simon Sinek's book, start with why? And it's funny, if anybody's listening to this and you've already read it once, the first time you listen to it, you miss the meaning. First time you read it or listen to it, I'm gonna say listen, because I don't read. I'm too ADD for that. I listen at like 1.7 times speed. The first time you do it. It's all about you, your why, your why, your why. Once you've been in business long enough, if you listen to it again, it's about understanding the customer's why. And I'm a passionate guy. You've been in rooms with me. I'm a passionate guy about helping other people because real estate investing has changed my life, right? Like, I mean, we just talked about it, right? Like, to go from a basic high school failure to sending your son to the Ivy Leagues, like, that's different, right? I mean, to be 48 in my. My parents are 70 and can't retire, and I could, you know, retire and retire above where 97% of America is, right? Like, so it's just. I love it and I'm grateful. And so when I listen, to start with why I love lending, because, by the way, we're raised typically in America, that money's a result of time and energy versus money's a tool. And I learned from my second mentor, third mentor, Scott Horn, that money is a tool to make more money. And if you'll delay your gratification and just use your money to make more money, you get ahead so much farther. And I'm idiot, uneducated, Marine. So I just did what I was told. And so I'm listening, and I'm listening, and I'm like, oh, my God, I got it. I hate lending, but why do I hate lending? The first thing anyone ask is, what's your rate? Right? First. Second thing they ask, what are your points and fees? Like, their first two questions are basically, I don't want you to make any money, right? And so it's. It's a commoditized product, so it sucks. And then they talk about Apple, iPhones, Apple. You've never seen Apple advertise a price on an iPhone. Never. Not once. They don't advertise prices on anything. You may see AT T or T Mobile advertise that it's free. They don't talk price at Apple, Nike. You'll never see a Nike advertisement that has a price. You may see a Foot Locker advertisement that has a price on Nike, Coke, right? They put their polar bears and crap on the. On tv. They don't put a price. There is no price associated with an intrinsic feeling, right? And so Simon Sinek's book, when you really dive into it as an. Once you get a little bit of experience as an entrepreneur, you learn to find the purpose behind your customer. And if you can fulfill the purpose behind your customer, they'll do business with you, regardless of price, regardless, because you feel the need for them. So I said, okay, I've met thousands of investors, I've got hundreds of investors out there that tell me I've made them a millionaire. Because I've always just been a helper. Like, you know, since 2010 when I started the REI Expo and we grew that to where it was 1800 person people per year. I mean, it was, it's a big event. And that was before all this Facebook stuff. So with that, I was like, okay, what three things? And Simon talks about figure out what the core motivation, what three things does every real estate investor want? And ever. And I thought, okay, everyone I've met, everyone I've met, what are the three things? And I came up with this. Ultimately, everyone, just everyone, everyone that's listening to this probably just wants to make a little bit of money. Right? Right. Maybe they don't come from a great family, maybe they didn't get to go to college, maybe they feel like they've tapped out at their W2 job. They just want to make a little bit of money. So, Robert, that's what that first triangle is in the logo. Second thing, once people start making a little bit of money, they want that cash flow, that passive income, that mailbox money, whatever you want to call it. Right? But that's the second thing. Right. And so that's the second triangle. That's a part of the triangle logo. If you're just listening to this, you're not watching the video, you have no idea what I'm pointing at. But if you look at the Turner's logo, it's a triangle that is made up of three triangles. And the, the third reason everyone stays in this business is to build a legacy and create wealth. Because we all, all of a sudden see, oh my God, I, in general, most of us started with nothing. And here's a way to become a millionaire in America. Here's a way that slowly, over time, I could leave my children, you know, tens of millions of dollars. I mean, my 16 year old son and I were talking about death, taxes yesterday and about trust and these things. Because by the way, never had that conversation with my parents. There was no need, right? But for him, he needs to understand and start thinking this way. And so like that legacy is the whole thing. So Turnus is actually Latin for threefold, meaning what we care about is the three things that our customers really care about. And so as a part of that, our name is our mission and our mission is our name. And then I start Every meeting that we've ever have at Turnus with my mission statement, which literally is what I just told you, it's we partner with real estate investors to provide fast, reliable capital to help them create. Create wealth and build a legacy. That's it. That's what we do. That's our purpose. So I have shareholders, we have over 136 regular everyday investors that own stock in my company. I have 72 team members on at Turnus that own stock in my company. I have my friends from the boardroom mastermind to help me get the thing started that own a majority of stock in the company. And we're about to do another offering. Not a promise or solicitation. Disclosure. Disclosure. And will sell more stock in the company. And then eventually the intention is to convert it to a read or even take it public. And in 20. Here we go. The longest answer probably ever to your question. In 2013, when I partnered with Blackstone, I helped hand Main street to Wall Street. At that time, there were no institutional loan products available, and I helped create it. And. And now all the loans are institutional and they suck in general. So my swan song, if you will, Robert, is in a decade ago, I gave Main street to Wall street, and I'm here to take it back and give Main street back to Main Street. And then when I turn 50, I intend to ride off into the sunset and spend my time in Europe with my wife. Let's go. So we've got a couple of years, right? We got to make it happen. That's right. And Kiavi sold for $714 million two months ago. Two weeks ago. So we've got a comp. There you go. All right, well, lots of work to do, but I love that mission and I think obviously create huge impact in not only your life and your family's life, but so many people. Could you think about, not only are you touching the investors that you work with. Right. But imagine all the people that they touch as a result of being able to work with you. That's huge. Thank you. All right, so let's talk about Turnus a little bit more and tell us. Tell us about how you're different. Well, let's start first with you gave us a bit of an overview of Turnus. Tell us a bit more about Turnus and how you work with investors, what products you offer, and how you're different than other traditional lenders. Yeah. So our core offering, probably 80%. Well, we'll do 80 million of it this year, is 100% financing at 70% loan to value for anybody. We don't have a minimum credit score, we don't have a minimum experience requirement. We make sure you're not a fraud felon or a fugitive and then we make sure that you have the money to finish the project and then we evaluate the project. Because I've bought like 2,000 houses, I don't even know the number anymore. I bought more lots this year probably than most of these people ever buy houses. And so it's like we know how to underwrite the assets. And I brought a lot of my people that had worked on my property teams before into the company and so I'm okay given a brand new investor, 100% financing because I'm going to look at the deal, right? And I'm going to make sure that you have six months worth of interest payments, right? I don't want you to fail, right? I'm going to make sure you have 10% of the rehab to get started because then you're going to come to me for the draws every couple of weeks. Right now I'm going to pay you for the rehab but the big limiter is 70 LTV, right? Don't go pay, don't go overpay. I tell people all the time, just because a lender offers ADL TV doesn't mean you should take it, right? I mean just because a lender offers debt service coverage ratio alone at below 1% doesn't make it a good loan for you, right? Because you know you can get real estate rich and cash poor really quick in this business. So you know, we're a tech first company. We're using automated underwriting and AI. We're using plaid now which is just amazing because in like 30 seconds I can get all your bank statements, I can get your background and we can just move forward. Like why do we need to email bank statements back and forth in 2026? We close, fix and flip loans in a week sometimes if the customer's really organiz recognized we're closing long term rental loans in less than two weeks in 11 days. So we really, our core values are really how we're different. So our core values. I'm a Marine, so everything has to be an acronym. Our core values are stars, Speed. We operate with speed because we know time kills deals. Transparency because I've been on the other side of the lender table and I know what it's like to get yanked around. So we're not going to yank people around if we're having a problem with your loan at a 15 loan portfolio yesterday that after the first two site inspections came back, I told my guys to kill it. Like, the inspector was afraid to go into the second one, so. And there's like stray dogs running around. So he wouldn't even take outside pictures. Like, we just know if that's. If that's what you're bringing me, right? Not going to work, right? So, like. But I'm transparent about it. I'll tell you now, I'll give you a refund on the. On this. On the inspection cost of the other 13 houses. So I don't waste your money, right? I'm not going to yank you around, and I don't want you to yank me around. The A is accountability, right? So we got speed, transparency. A is accountability. I personally believe accountability is like the number one flaw in American society right now. Everything is someone else's fault. It's never mine, it's never yours. We can blame it and point fingers. And I enforce that on myself. When the company falls short, it's my fault. I encourage it on my team to own up, because if you can quickly, transparently acknowledge where you made a mistake, we can fix it together, right? If you slowly hide it and don't take accountability, you probably get fired. Right? Speed, transparency, accountability. And then respect. And the respect is more about. We're going to respect everyone as human beings, we're going to respect each other's time. When we see our teammate working hard, we're not going to throw extra stuff on them. We're not going to halfway do our job and expect someone else to clean it up, right? We're going to respect the customer's time. We're going to respect each other's time. We're going to be respectful of each other. And because respect is just a huge thing for me, if there's anything like the. You can ignore me all you want. Don't call me a name like. I mean, I'm just respects a big thing for me. And then the last one is service. And service. It gives me goosebumps every time I say it. Because we make millionaires, right? Like our investors, our customers, we're trying to help make them millionaires. We're trying to help them build wealth and create a legacy. And I need my team to know that my team has stock in this company. We're trying to lift everyone up together. We're trying to all win together. So you have to be of service. And so the same way, we're not going to disrespectfully throw incomplete Work on our teammates. We're also, when we see them struggling and maybe we have some capacity, we're going to reach out across the aisle, say, hey, can I help? Like, like, what can I do? How can I help you? You seem stressed, you know, and so that's it. I mean, how we're really different is. Is we are super focused on living those core values every day. That's awesome. And I imagine you, if you can hit on all cylinders on every star, then you got something there, right? Yeah. And we got Stars awards every month. So this is fun, right? So there's an email address, stars turnest.com that anyone in the company can email and nominate anyone in the company except for the executive leadership. And so every month at the monthly meeting, we give away the Stars award. And it's a real award because you get either $500 cash on your next payroll or you get 500 shares in the company. And let's go. That's huge. Right? And. But it's as the CEO to take a step back, but the purpose behind it, every month I read 30 to 70 emails in that email, and I'm able to see who my rising stars are. I'm able to see who cares enough about their team. Because when I nominate you, I don't get anything. Right. It's just I care about you. And I really like to look at the ones that. Where it's someone nominating someone from a different department. Right. It's one thing to nominate your buddy next door to you. Right. But when you're nominating someone from your department, like when a loan officer nominates a processor or a closer or the draw team, those are the things I get so much information about my company from that that it's. It's something that's really special. And it wasn't. It wasn't my idea. It was my chief operating officer's idea because she's all about people and processes. Yeah. What a culture. I love that and I imagine that creates a great culture. How big is the team? There we are at 57 or 58 full time, and it's like a total of 72, including contractors. Man, that's a big team. In how many years? We opened our doors in January of 2020 24. Wow, that's incredible. Congrats on that. That's huge. All right, so let's talk about the market. Obviously, lots of uncertainty right now, whether it be rates or inventory, insurance, construction costs, so on. Where do you think the biggest opportunities are today as you look at the market? You're doing a lot of loans, you see a lot of opportunities. What do you think the biggest opportunity is today? The probably most constant thing in my 24 years of real estate investing is buying a home at 70 to 90% of the median home price for the area. And I think too many people overlook that segment and don't understand what they're looking for. It's not a$80,000 house, it's not a$200,000 house. What it is is if all the houses in the neighborhood are worth 400 and you can get a $350,000 house, you're golden. That house is most likely going to cash flow because it's most likely going to be comparable to apartment rents in the general area. That house is going to sell quickly because it's just cheaper, right? And that house is going to probably go up in value in a dollar per square foot wise faster. So you know, I think right now the market's really strong. I mean we do 12 month loans and our average duration is still below six months. I mean the investors that are focused, right, that get a good project that they have a good plan on are in and out, in and out. And like, I mean we're, we're carrying, I don't know, 45 million in assets under management right now. It's 200 something loans that we report on. And less than 1% of those loans are past due, 60 days or more. That's what's really known as delinquent. And our customers get it, get in, get out, come back to the well again. Great. And, and I think, you know, if you go back to last year, there was a lender panel at the boardroom and the two other guys were like, oh, rates are coming down this year. And I kind of laughed at the end of the stage. I'm like, no, they're not and they haven't and they a little up and down. I think, you know, I think you will see lower rates by the end of this year. And I'm not one of those, so hurry up and buy now. You don't hurry up and make investment decisions, but the opportunities there and if you can find a house that cash flows right now. Many home, many geographies have gone down 18 to 22% in the last 36 months. Many rents have tom reduced, you know, 10 to 15% in some zip codes. I believe that we're at or very, very near the trough in values and in rents. So much so that we recently increased our loan to value on certain loans. So I think, I really do feel like the time is now to start getting ready if you're not already ready. Because I think we're going to have a ultra low rate environment on the back of some government manipulation. And they're already talking about the way they changed the inflation measure. They're already talking about the new Fed chair. We just had major inflation from the Iran war and oil prices and now that's going to go down and that's going to cause quarter over quarter deflation which will give them a cover story. Low rates are coming. And like him or love him, it's because the president United States has a lot of commercial real estate he needs to refi. True story, true story. Or buy. Right. One of the two or friends that need to buy. All right, let's move. We're about out of time here. So let's go into the rapid fire questions. We'll go through three or four questions but would love to know what's one book everyone should read? There's. You get to pick. If you're a procrastinator, you must read eat that frog. If you're not a procrastinator, read richest man in Babylon. Love it. One habit that's changed your life. Going to church. Amen. If you lost everything tomorrow, what would you do first? Go to church. No, I won't be that easy on you. But that is what I would do, man. I'd get in my truck or take a walk and go find a distressed house and use the knowledge I have to go make some money. All right. If you could give one piece of advice to somebody that's working a W2 who wants financial freedom, what would it be? Oh my gosh. There's a. I think Kiyosaki wrote it. There's a great book called what to know before you quit your day job. I think Kiyosaki wrote I can't remember who don't quit W2 makes you a better borrower. W2 gives you security. W2 keeps you from buying a house because you need to buy a house because you need to make money. And the benefits are employed people get don't quit. But, but, but if it's a job that makes you unhappy, then you need to look for either another job that makes you happy. And if you don't have at least a year worth of oh crap money, don't even consider walking away. Love that advice. So many people out there tell you go quit your job. Go start, follow your passion. It's like keep your job like you said it makes you a better borrower, gives you leverage, gives you the right financial statement to go out and then make a bigger impact. When I'll tell you the biggest mistake I've made in my career is not treating my wife like a life partner or a business partner and just treat and you know, we're in a very traditional marriage where I'm the breadwinner and at times when I'm full blown entrepreneur and not drawing a regular salary, it worries her. She's worried about our family, about our future. When she hears me saying that I'm $27 million in debt, it worries her. But there's something about my wife drawing that regular paycheck makes her okay. And so I think there's a sense of security and I think oftentimes we ignore that need on, you know, lately everybody's oh, who you marry is the biggest choice you ever make. It is right. But actually the biggest choice you ever make is how much you respect them and actually tend to their needs. Love that. All right, well, Tim, I appreciate you coming on. This has been awesome. If somebody wants to learn more about Turnus or reach out, what's the best way to do that? Yes, I'm at timherridge on all the social channels. If you Google Turnus, we're ternus.com we are not John Ternus, the Apple CEO. They we. I'm joking around now that they named their new CEO after me. But now ternus.com first thing I bought was a $15,000 UL. My wife thought I was crazy and I am. But yeah, I'm pretty easy to find. I'm the only Tim Herridge out there. Love it. Well, appreciate you joining. Thank you to everyone that's listening. Hopefully you found that helpful. I did learn quite a bit, so thank you again, Tim. Thanks, Robert. All right, thanks for listening to the purpose driven investor. If today's episode sparked an idea or inspired you to make an impact, connect with me@howlandsuns.com Join our community of purpose driven investors who are helping families find stable homes while building real returns. Because when we invest with purpose, everyone wins.